New Upon further review ... Since Miami joined the ACC in 2004, the Hurricanes have won 7 conference titles. FSU has won 48.
Saturday, May 30, 2015
Gap widening between ACC, SEC in TV dollars
Gap widening between ACC, SEC in TV dollars
"It might just be time for Clemson’s conference to push those chips forward for an ACC Network.
Why? Look no further than the resounding success of the SEC in year one of its 24/7 TV network.
ESPN’s Brett McMurphy first reported Friday the SEC made a record $455.8 million this past year, which will distribute $31.2 million to each member institution. That’s an over $11 million increase from last year per school. Eleven. Million.
How big a gap has that created? Just last year the ACC was reportedly roughly $100,000 off from the SEC, sending $20.8 million to the 14-member schools and an undisclosed amount to partial partner Notre Dame. The figures for this past year haven't been released yet.
Elsewhere, the Pac-12, which also has a TV network, increased its revenue by $40 million last year and outgained both the Big Ten ($338.9) and SEC ($325.9), distributing $21 million per school.
One report estimates the Big Ten, which was the first to get in the TV network biz, will crack the $40 million barrier per school by 2017-18 at least. Sports Illustrated's Andy Staples agrees.
An All-ACC network has been talked about in recent years and would likely come through TV partner ESPN, which has rode the wave of success from running the SEC outfit. The Big Ten is affiliated with Fox Sports, while the Pac-12 owns its network outright.
At the ACC spring meetings, commissioner John Swofford kept to the party line of recent months regarding the TV channel. He says they are “right on schedule” per their plans for it.
“It’s in process. It doesn’t serve any real positive purpose for us to periodically give interim updates on that,” Swofford told the Orlando Sentinel. “The channel is a part of discussions about what’s the best route for us to go television-wise in the future with the league that we now have with 15 members, with our geographic footprint as a conference is the largest of any conference now. Those things give us opportunities, that previously we didn’t have. A potential channel is one of those. We anticipated it would be a two or three year stretch in getting to whatever endpoint…
“Discussion is what we thought we would be at this given time. We’ve got a great partner in ESPN and together we think we can do some really good things. At some point we’ll decide we’re going to do something and we’ll make that known. We’ve got a ways to go, but we’re pleased where we are in the process.”
The SEC’s figures are no surprise given Southeastern markets made up the top-seven of ESPN’s college football coverage. Three of those, however, are shared markets for the ACC in Greenville (No. 3, 4.1), Atlanta (No. 5, 3.8) and Jacksonville (No. 7, 3.5). Louisville (2.7), Richmond (2.6) and Charlotte (2.5) all made the top-15.
While basketball isn’t the huge money-maker, a Duke-UNC regular-season game in February earned a 2.6 rating, which made it the 11th-most viewed men’s college basketball game of all-time. Raleigh-Durham of course led the way (10.8), but Louisville (8.9), Charlotte (8.5) and even Greenville (7.2) weren’t far behind.
Overall, three ACC markets led ESPN’s college basketball viewing in Louisville (5.9, a shared market with Kentucky obviously bumping it up), Greensboro (3) and Raleigh-Durham (2.7). Charlotte (1.8) also cracked the top-10.
Expanded coverage on ESPN is expanding the conference's brand, but how long will it take – and how far will the ACC fall behind before an ACC Network comes to be? That answer will be a part of Swofford’s legacy going forward."
Friday, May 29, 2015
Conference Revenue figures are starting to roll in ....
This was just said by Andy Staples and tells you all you need to know....
"In 2 years the B10 (45-50 million) and the SEC (40-45 million) will make more than double the other 3 conferences,making it the Titanic 2 instead of power 5. "
"In 2 years the B10 (45-50 million) and the SEC (40-45 million) will make more than double the other 3 conferences,making it the Titanic 2 instead of power 5. "
Big 12 expected to announce revenue of about $24.5 million to $26.5 million per school. Was about $23 million last year on a full share.
Chuck Carlton @ChuckCarltonDMN 2 hours ago
Brett McMurphy @McMurphyESPN 4 minutes ago
Chuck Carlton
Total revenue distributed by Big 12 was $252 million. WVU received $23 million, TCU $24M (with CFP bowl). Avg for eight full shares: $25.6M.
Brett McMurphy
SEC will distribute $31.07M per school in revenue, sources told @ESPN. League made record $455M past year
"@McMurphyESPN: SEC made $455M in revenue, Big 12 “little north of $250M" past year, sources told @espn"
Just wait until SECN has full year
Bud Elliott @TomahawkNation 3 minutes ago
Up from $20.9M per school, $309.6M whole from last year. SEC Network is a printing press.
"
Bud Elliott
SEC 455 v. Big12 255 or so seems huge, but real comparison is per team (10 v. 14), which is $32.5M v. $25.5M, 27% more. Still a big gap.
Andy Staples @Andy_Staples 2 minutes ago
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 38 seconds ago
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 50 seconds ago
That's up from a record $309.6 million last fiscal year and will feature an increase of almost $11 million per institution (last year, each received approximately $20.6).
So the SEC Network launch appears to be a successful generator of revenue for the 14 programs in the SEC.
McMurphy also reported that the Big 12 total revenue was "just north of $250 million" per sources."
Andy Staples
That SEC haul is after only 9+ months of the network and minus a host of one-time startup costs. So next year? https://media0.giphy.com/media/X8omQqfFyeq1a/200_s.gif …
Greg Flugaur
And remember Big 10 has 3rd tier rights outside of BTN. OU/UT are ahead in the game vs Conf networks in terms of $...but behind in exposure
Beware of people (dude) adding B12 3rd tier money to their Conf payouts to come up with number close to SEC/B1G payouts.
Greg Flugaur
But OU will be behind in another year in both...and they shouldn't be...looking at exits 7/8-9 years from now.
"According to Brett McMurphy of ESPN, the Southeastern Conference will distribute $31.7 million per school in revenue this fiscal year.
The league, which launched the SEC Network this past academic year, raked in a record $455 million for 2014-15. That's up from a record $309.6 million last fiscal year and will feature an increase of almost $11 million per institution (last year, each received approximately $20.6).
So the SEC Network launch appears to be a successful generator of revenue for the 14 programs in the SEC.
McMurphy also reported that the Big 12 total revenue was "just north of $250 million" per sources."
Thursday, May 28, 2015
The 15 Most Valuable Sports Networks
ACC is on the clock......can't have too many more months go by with "we are studying things" and have folks buy that an ACC Network WITH REVENUE is a real thing.
The 15 Most Valuable Sports Networks
1. ESPN $6.61 x 94.5 million homes = $7.5 billion
2. NFL Network $1.31 x 73.6 million homes = $1.16 billion
3. FS1 .99 x 91.2 million homes = $1.08 billion
4. ESPN2 .83 x 94.5 million hiomes = $941.2 million
5. SEC Network .66 x 69.1 million homes = $547.3 million
6. Golf Channel .35 x 79.4 million homes = $332.2 million
7. NBC Sports Network .30 x 83.1 million homes = $299 million
8. Big Ten Network .39 x 62 million homes = $290.2 million
9. MLB Network .26 x 71.3 million homes = $222.5 million
10. FS2 .28 x 64 million homes = $215 million
11. NBA TV .29 x 57.2 million homes = $199 million
12. ESPNU .22 x 74.9 million homes = $198 million
13. CBS Sports Network .26 x 61 million homes = $190.3 million
14. NHL Network .32 x 37.4 million homes = $143.6 million
15. Pac 12 Network .39 x 12.3 million homes = $57.6 million
"Last week I wrote about ESPN suing Verizon. I'd encourage you to read that article if you're interested in the business side of the cable sports world. This week I'm writing what I plan to make an annual tradition here at Outkick, a breakdown of the 15 most valuable national sports networks. (There are regional sports networks as well and some of them are quite valuable, but I'm focusing on the ones that you could all be theoretically receiving in your homes.)
Thanks to SNL Kagan for providing this data on monthly subscriber fees. I always reiterate this because I feel like lots of you still haven't realized it -- every channel on your cable bill has a monthly subscriber fee. ESPN is the most expensive subscriber fee at $6.61 a month. Every channel on your cable or satellite package costs something.
A couple of things that I want to hit before the numbers. I'll get emails about this so be leery of the difference between how many homes a network is "available in" and how many it is actually "in." PR departments love to promote the "available in" number. But that's a fictional construct. You make no money off the homes you're available in, you make it off the homes you're actually in. For instance, HBO is available in every home with cable. But it's only in roughly 36 million homes. HBO makes money off these 36 million, not the hundred million it's available in.
Also worth noting, these are just raw revenue numbers. So there have been no expenses removed here. Also, advertising revenue isn't included. That can be substantial. ESPN's advertising revenue, for instance, is typically around 25% of total subscriber revenue. Everyone else's advertising revenue would be much lower than that.
With that in mind here are the 15 most lucrative sports channels in the country:
The first number is the monthly subscriber fee, which you then multiply by twelve and then multiply that number by the number of homes that carry the channel.
1. ESPN $6.61 x 94.5 million homes = $7.5 billion
2. NFL Network $1.31 x 73.6 million homes = $1.16 billion
3. FS1 .99 x 91.2 million homes = $1.08 billion
4. ESPN2 .83 x 94.5 million hiomes = $941.2 million
5. SEC Network .66 x 69.1 million homes = $547.3 million
6. Golf Channel .35 x 79.4 million homes = $332.2 million
7. NBC Sports Network .30 x 83.1 million homes = $299 million
8. Big Ten Network .39 x 62 million homes = $290.2 million
9. MLB Network .26 x 71.3 million homes = $222.5 million
10. FS2 .28 x 64 million homes = $215 million
11. NBA TV .29 x 57.2 million homes = $199 million
12. ESPNU .22 x 74.9 million homes = $198 million
13. CBS Sports Network .26 x 61 million homes = $190.3 million
14. NHL Network .32 x 37.4 million homes = $143.6 million
15. Pac 12 Network .39 x 12.3 million homes = $57.6 million
(FYI, these revenues are based on year end 2015 numbers. Per SNL Kagan if you average out the year then the number of average subscribers in 2015 are somewhat lower: NFL Network 73 million, FS1 88.2 million, SEC Network 66 million, Big Ten 61.1 million, NBC 82.3 million, CBS Sports Network 58 million, FS2 54.3 million, MLB 70.8 million, NHL Network 37 million).
Several thoughts on these numbers:
1. This list doesn't include TBS or TNT, both of which have substantial sports offerings which serve to increase their subscriber fees.
Here are their numbers:
TNT -- thanks NBA -- is $1.65 a month, the second most expensive cable channel. TBS is .85 a month, the eighth most expensive cable channel.
2. Interesting comparison for those of you who are interested in over the top sports offerings.
WWE Network has 1.3 million announced subscribers x $9.99 a month =$156 million.
So in terms of revenue the WWE Network is already bigger than the NHL Network.
Full disclosure: I'm a WWE shareholder and believe that Disney, Fox, Turner, CBS or Comcast should buy the WWE and put its programming on their cable sports channels.
3. FS1 is for real.
Yes, I'm employed by Fox and yes it has been trendy to take online shots at our network as it made its cable debut over the past 20 months, but FS1 is now the third largest sports cable network in the country and the seventh most lucrative station on cable. Right now the business side is ahead of the content side, but that's not a bad problem to have. It's certainly better than the reverse. Now we just need to build out our programming to surround the solid sports rights we already have.
In the meantime, I feel like everyone has forgotten how atrocious ESPN's programming was for the first several years it existed. Remember all those strong man competitions? The replayed football and basketball games a week after they aired the first time? Building a new network takes time. ESPN was ridiculed for years by ABC, NBC, and CBS, now it's the most valuable media property in the United States. FS1's start has been infinitely better than ESPN's start, we just live in a microwave society. Everyone wants everything immediately.
4. The SEC Network is nearly worth the same amount as the NBA, NHL, and MLB's Networks combined.
Those three bring in $565 million a year, the SEC Network brings in $541 million.
The SEC dwarfs the Big Ten Network, producing nearly twice the subscriber revenue.
Most still haven't realized how successful the SEC Network is. Just wait until these revenue distributions start to roll out to the individual schools. The SEC Network is a total game changer. It went from not existing nine months ago to the fifth most valuable sports network in the country in less than a year.
5. NBC Sports Network has to be in line for a major increase in the near future.
I would think a doubling of its monthly fee is definitely doable when the next round of carriage negotiations take place.
6. The Pac 12 Network is a cautionary tale.
There just isn't enough demand among Pac 12 fans to create substantial revenue. The Pac 12 has trumpeted that it's "available in" 90 million homes. But the number who actually pay for it, per SNL Kagan numbers, is just 12.3 million. If those numbers are accurate, it helps to explain why the conference only paid out $1 million extra to each school for the network last year and projects to pay the same amount this year.
7. The ACC wants its own network.
Does the ACC have more in common with the SEC or the Pac 12? It's probably somewhere in the middle, right? Football drove the SEC's Network. Are there really enough ACC football games that will be in high demand? ESPN executed a masterful plan to launch the SEC Network, but the SEC's channel was paired with ESPN's rights extensions. The ACC Network would be a much, much more difficult battle and it wouldn't have the other ESPN channels to pair for negotiation purposes.
Other than the potential ACC Network, it's hard to see many more sports channels coming.
8. Is cord cutting or illegal streaming becoming an issue for these channels?
According to SNL Kagan ESPN's number of subscribers declined from 97 million homes last year to 94.5 million this year. I asked SNL Kagan why that might be and they replied as follows: "The cable operators have retention tools like low-priced packages without sports. They don't advertise them but they offer them to people who are disconnecting. We think this is causing a decline in ESPN subscribers."
The 15 Most Valuable Sports Networks
1. ESPN $6.61 x 94.5 million homes = $7.5 billion
2. NFL Network $1.31 x 73.6 million homes = $1.16 billion
3. FS1 .99 x 91.2 million homes = $1.08 billion
4. ESPN2 .83 x 94.5 million hiomes = $941.2 million
5. SEC Network .66 x 69.1 million homes = $547.3 million
6. Golf Channel .35 x 79.4 million homes = $332.2 million
7. NBC Sports Network .30 x 83.1 million homes = $299 million
8. Big Ten Network .39 x 62 million homes = $290.2 million
9. MLB Network .26 x 71.3 million homes = $222.5 million
10. FS2 .28 x 64 million homes = $215 million
11. NBA TV .29 x 57.2 million homes = $199 million
12. ESPNU .22 x 74.9 million homes = $198 million
13. CBS Sports Network .26 x 61 million homes = $190.3 million
14. NHL Network .32 x 37.4 million homes = $143.6 million
15. Pac 12 Network .39 x 12.3 million homes = $57.6 million
"Last week I wrote about ESPN suing Verizon. I'd encourage you to read that article if you're interested in the business side of the cable sports world. This week I'm writing what I plan to make an annual tradition here at Outkick, a breakdown of the 15 most valuable national sports networks. (There are regional sports networks as well and some of them are quite valuable, but I'm focusing on the ones that you could all be theoretically receiving in your homes.)
Thanks to SNL Kagan for providing this data on monthly subscriber fees. I always reiterate this because I feel like lots of you still haven't realized it -- every channel on your cable bill has a monthly subscriber fee. ESPN is the most expensive subscriber fee at $6.61 a month. Every channel on your cable or satellite package costs something.
A couple of things that I want to hit before the numbers. I'll get emails about this so be leery of the difference between how many homes a network is "available in" and how many it is actually "in." PR departments love to promote the "available in" number. But that's a fictional construct. You make no money off the homes you're available in, you make it off the homes you're actually in. For instance, HBO is available in every home with cable. But it's only in roughly 36 million homes. HBO makes money off these 36 million, not the hundred million it's available in.
Also worth noting, these are just raw revenue numbers. So there have been no expenses removed here. Also, advertising revenue isn't included. That can be substantial. ESPN's advertising revenue, for instance, is typically around 25% of total subscriber revenue. Everyone else's advertising revenue would be much lower than that.
With that in mind here are the 15 most lucrative sports channels in the country:
The first number is the monthly subscriber fee, which you then multiply by twelve and then multiply that number by the number of homes that carry the channel.
1. ESPN $6.61 x 94.5 million homes = $7.5 billion
2. NFL Network $1.31 x 73.6 million homes = $1.16 billion
3. FS1 .99 x 91.2 million homes = $1.08 billion
4. ESPN2 .83 x 94.5 million hiomes = $941.2 million
5. SEC Network .66 x 69.1 million homes = $547.3 million
6. Golf Channel .35 x 79.4 million homes = $332.2 million
7. NBC Sports Network .30 x 83.1 million homes = $299 million
8. Big Ten Network .39 x 62 million homes = $290.2 million
9. MLB Network .26 x 71.3 million homes = $222.5 million
10. FS2 .28 x 64 million homes = $215 million
11. NBA TV .29 x 57.2 million homes = $199 million
12. ESPNU .22 x 74.9 million homes = $198 million
13. CBS Sports Network .26 x 61 million homes = $190.3 million
14. NHL Network .32 x 37.4 million homes = $143.6 million
15. Pac 12 Network .39 x 12.3 million homes = $57.6 million
(FYI, these revenues are based on year end 2015 numbers. Per SNL Kagan if you average out the year then the number of average subscribers in 2015 are somewhat lower: NFL Network 73 million, FS1 88.2 million, SEC Network 66 million, Big Ten 61.1 million, NBC 82.3 million, CBS Sports Network 58 million, FS2 54.3 million, MLB 70.8 million, NHL Network 37 million).
Several thoughts on these numbers:
1. This list doesn't include TBS or TNT, both of which have substantial sports offerings which serve to increase their subscriber fees.
Here are their numbers:
TNT -- thanks NBA -- is $1.65 a month, the second most expensive cable channel. TBS is .85 a month, the eighth most expensive cable channel.
2. Interesting comparison for those of you who are interested in over the top sports offerings.
WWE Network has 1.3 million announced subscribers x $9.99 a month =$156 million.
So in terms of revenue the WWE Network is already bigger than the NHL Network.
Full disclosure: I'm a WWE shareholder and believe that Disney, Fox, Turner, CBS or Comcast should buy the WWE and put its programming on their cable sports channels.
3. FS1 is for real.
Yes, I'm employed by Fox and yes it has been trendy to take online shots at our network as it made its cable debut over the past 20 months, but FS1 is now the third largest sports cable network in the country and the seventh most lucrative station on cable. Right now the business side is ahead of the content side, but that's not a bad problem to have. It's certainly better than the reverse. Now we just need to build out our programming to surround the solid sports rights we already have.
In the meantime, I feel like everyone has forgotten how atrocious ESPN's programming was for the first several years it existed. Remember all those strong man competitions? The replayed football and basketball games a week after they aired the first time? Building a new network takes time. ESPN was ridiculed for years by ABC, NBC, and CBS, now it's the most valuable media property in the United States. FS1's start has been infinitely better than ESPN's start, we just live in a microwave society. Everyone wants everything immediately.
4. The SEC Network is nearly worth the same amount as the NBA, NHL, and MLB's Networks combined.
Those three bring in $565 million a year, the SEC Network brings in $541 million.
The SEC dwarfs the Big Ten Network, producing nearly twice the subscriber revenue.
Most still haven't realized how successful the SEC Network is. Just wait until these revenue distributions start to roll out to the individual schools. The SEC Network is a total game changer. It went from not existing nine months ago to the fifth most valuable sports network in the country in less than a year.
5. NBC Sports Network has to be in line for a major increase in the near future.
I would think a doubling of its monthly fee is definitely doable when the next round of carriage negotiations take place.
6. The Pac 12 Network is a cautionary tale.
There just isn't enough demand among Pac 12 fans to create substantial revenue. The Pac 12 has trumpeted that it's "available in" 90 million homes. But the number who actually pay for it, per SNL Kagan numbers, is just 12.3 million. If those numbers are accurate, it helps to explain why the conference only paid out $1 million extra to each school for the network last year and projects to pay the same amount this year.
7. The ACC wants its own network.
Does the ACC have more in common with the SEC or the Pac 12? It's probably somewhere in the middle, right? Football drove the SEC's Network. Are there really enough ACC football games that will be in high demand? ESPN executed a masterful plan to launch the SEC Network, but the SEC's channel was paired with ESPN's rights extensions. The ACC Network would be a much, much more difficult battle and it wouldn't have the other ESPN channels to pair for negotiation purposes.
Other than the potential ACC Network, it's hard to see many more sports channels coming.
8. Is cord cutting or illegal streaming becoming an issue for these channels?
According to SNL Kagan ESPN's number of subscribers declined from 97 million homes last year to 94.5 million this year. I asked SNL Kagan why that might be and they replied as follows: "The cable operators have retention tools like low-priced packages without sports. They don't advertise them but they offer them to people who are disconnecting. We think this is causing a decline in ESPN subscribers."
Apparel Contract Updates - 5/27/15
Great article by ACC football RX.
I sometimes wonder if FSU too often locks itself into long range deals. Just a thought.
Apparel Contract Updates - 5/27/15
"Here is the newest information I have at this time on the values of [published] ACC apparel contracts:
* includes both cash and clothing.
NOTE: this data is current as of the 2014-15 athletic school year; data from other ACC schools is not available at this time.
BOTTOM LINE: It looks like Louisville is maximizing its profit potential here. FSU is close to max, but probably not quite. Virginia Tech and Clemson are seriously lagging behind... Good news for the Tigers: their contract with Nike expires at the end of June (6/30/2015) and should increase soon! Bad news for the Hokies: their contract runs through 2018.
NOTE: Georgia Tech's contract with Russell Athletic stated that they would get a bonus for winning a BCS game; I wonder if that applied to the Orange Bowl last season, and how much the bonus was?
SOURCE: http://www.bizjournals.com/portland/blog/threads_and_laces/2013/12/database-nike-adidas-under-armour-ncaa.html"
I sometimes wonder if FSU too often locks itself into long range deals. Just a thought.
Apparel Contract Updates - 5/27/15
"Here is the newest information I have at this time on the values of [published] ACC apparel contracts:
| University | Company | total value* | expires |
| Louisville | Adidas | $5,680,000 | 6/30/2018 |
| Florida State | Nike | $4,400,000 | 7/31/2023 |
| N. Carolina | Nike | $3,550,000 | 6/30/2018 |
| NC State | Adidas | $3,025,000 | 6/30/2016 |
| Georgia Tech | Russell Athletic | $2,300,000 | 6/30/2018 |
| Virginia | Nike | $1,575,000 | 6/30/2016 |
| Virginia Tech | Nike | $1,275,000 | 6/30/2018 |
| Clemson | Nike | $1,000,000 | 6/30/2015 |
NOTE: this data is current as of the 2014-15 athletic school year; data from other ACC schools is not available at this time.
BOTTOM LINE: It looks like Louisville is maximizing its profit potential here. FSU is close to max, but probably not quite. Virginia Tech and Clemson are seriously lagging behind... Good news for the Tigers: their contract with Nike expires at the end of June (6/30/2015) and should increase soon! Bad news for the Hokies: their contract runs through 2018.
NOTE: Georgia Tech's contract with Russell Athletic stated that they would get a bonus for winning a BCS game; I wonder if that applied to the Orange Bowl last season, and how much the bonus was?
SOURCE: http://www.bizjournals.com/portland/blog/threads_and_laces/2013/12/database-nike-adidas-under-armour-ncaa.html"
Wednesday, May 27, 2015
Average Athletic Depart Revenue 2013-2014
Average Athletic Depart Revenue 2013-2014
"USA Today released its annual rankings of public college athletic departments by revenue, showing the exact dollar amounts that separate the NCAA's haves and have-nots.
Here are some takeaways from the data, which comes from the 2013-14 fiscal year. Remember these are public schools only, since private schools don't have to share their numbers, so there's no Notre Dame or USC, for example.
1. Yep, Oregon and Phil Knight are super rich.
The Ducks come out as the big winner, leading the nation by bringing in $196 million and blowing past the $161 million brought in by Texas, USA Today's otherwise perennial No. 1. That's an $80 million increase over the previous year.
The main factor was the donation of Oregon's $95 million athletics complex by Nike founder and UO alumnus Phil Knight. Oregon's athletics contributions add up to $124 million, an increase from $46 million in the previous fiscal year.
Since that donation won't be duplicated any time soon, expect Texas to reclaim its spot next year.
How Oregon built a power
2. Here's the revenue ranking by conference.
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Those looming Pac-12 financial worries? There's a clear gap forming between the top few and the next tier.
Elsewhere, the ACC, which doesn't have its own 24-hour network, lags behind four powers that do (well, the Big 12 sort of does). Meanwhile, the Sun Belt is so far behind its FBS neighbors that it would rank behind two non-FBS conferences, the A-10 and CAA.
3. And here's the top 25.
| School | Conference | Revenue | Expenses |
|---|---|---|---|
| Oregon | Pac-12 | $196,030,398 | $110,378,432 |
| Texas | Big 12 | $161,035,187 | $154,128,877 |
| Michigan | Big Ten | $157,899,820 | $142,551,994 |
| Alabama | SEC | $153,234,273 | $120,184,128 |
| Ohio State | Big Ten | $145,232,681 | $113,937,001 |
| LSU | SEC | $133,679,256 | $122,945,710 |
| Oklahoma | Big 12 | $129,226,692 | $113,366,698 |
| Wisconsin | Big Ten | $127,910,918 | $125,096,235 |
| Florida | SEC | $124,611,305 | $109,690,016 |
| Texas A&M | SEC | $119,475,872 | $95,663,483 |
| Oklahoma State | Big 12 | $117,803,302 | $109,648,000 |
| Penn State | Big Ten | $117,590,990 | $117,440,639 |
| Auburn | SEC | $113,716,004 | $126,470,602 |
| Tennessee | SEC | $107,499,732 | $106,153,854 |
| Minnesota | Big Ten | $106,176,156 | $106,176,156 |
| Iowa | Big Ten | $105,958,954 | $102,278,847 |
| Florida State | ACC | $104,774,474 | $98,866,182 |
| Michigan State | Big Ten | $104,677,456 | $107,422,832 |
| Georgia | SEC | $103,495,587 | $92,560,956 |
| Washington | Pac-12 | $100,275,187 | $86,097,137 |
| Arizona | Pac-12 | $99,911,034 | $95,524,260 |
| South Carolina | SEC | $98,619,479 | $95,762,786 |
| Kansas | Big 12 | $97,681,066 | $90,056,511 |
| Arkansas | SEC | $96,793,972 | $94,640,408 |
| Kentucky | SEC | $96,685,489 | $94,612,431 |
Athletic programs from the five powers take 52 of the top 54 spots.
The only non-power schools to break into that top group are AAC basketball powers UConn (44th; $71 million in revenue) and Cincinnati (52nd; $59 million). The lowest power-conference revenue stream belongs to Washington State, which ranked 54th at $54 million.
So, yep, the poorest power school brings in about as much money as the second-richest non-power.
4. Revenue soars, and so does spending.
In an era when some college athletes and advocates are fighting for more money, and many schools say they can't afford it, the dollar signs are eye-popping. Twenty schools brought in more than $100 million in 2013-14, and 16 spent more than $100 million.
The biggest spender was Texas -- they do everything bigger there, right? -- which unloaded $154 million.
5. Money is a good indicator of success.
While athletic departments are much more than just football and men's basketball, the average college sports fan is mostly worried about the big two. The eight public schools that have seen the most success in both all spent at least $86 million last year, and they all brought in at least $86 million, too.
Among the eight public schools in the top 10 of the final 2014 college football rankings, six rank in the top 20 in revenue. In the final 2015 USA Today Coaches Poll for men's basketball, the six public schools in the top 10 all rank in the top 33 in revenue."
Regulear Season win total odds
ricobert1
ACC total regular season wins via 5dimes/Sportsbook pic.twitter.com/HAcoDAVSA8
Tuesday, May 26, 2015
TOP SCHOOL REVENUE (USA TODAY)
No ACC schools in top 25 outside of FSU.
Houston we have a problem. Watch how the ACC will ignore this problem. ACC is loaded with schools with Texas, Michigan, Ohio State type money (endowments, wealthy alumns, etc).....they just don't want to play this game. But THAT is the core issue ....isn't it?
You can just about rank-order the conferences in terms of overall strength by looking at the percentage of student/academic subsidies the athletic side is getting.
Number of schools with less than a 5% subsidy percentage:
SEC:...... 10
B1G:....... 8 (B1G has most schools with less than 2% subsidy rate)
Big 12:..... 5
PAC:....... 3
ACC: ...... 0 (most ACC schools have less than a 15% subsidy rate)
TOP SCHOOL REVENUE
College athletics finance report: Non-Power 5 schools face huge money pressure
Correction: An earlier version of this story misidentifiedEast Carolina 's current conference. The Pirates are in the American Athletic Conference.
The rich are different from you and me,F. Scott Fitzgerald once observed, to which Ernest Hemingway famously added: Yes, they have more money.
The so-called Power Five conferences are different from the American Athletic andMountain West conferences. They have lots more money.
Wood Selig knows all about that. He is athletics director atOld Dominion University , a member of Conference USA. His school, which resumed playing football in 2009 and moved up to the Football Bowl Subdivision in 2013, makes an interesting case study in haves and have-nots. Virginia recently passed a state law that will limit the amount of subsidy that schools can take from student fees and other university sources to fund athletics departments — in ODU's case, no more than 55%.
That puts Old Dominion in a double-bind: Trying to increase its football profile while trying to decrease its dependence on a primary source of revenue. Others in the AAC, Mountain West and C-USA face different challenges, but similar pressures: They are schools in lesser leagues with designs on keeping up with Power Five programs, but typically without the means to underwrite their dreams.
DATABASE: A look at every Division I public school's finances
"I think the pressure is going to get intense in the next five years," Kansas State president and NCAA Board of Governors chairKirk Schulz told USA TODAY Sports. "A lot of schools where (administrators) are going to go, 'We don't have as much money from the state, we're jacking tuition up, we can't afford anymore to send this amount of money over to Athletics. They're going to have to stand on their own.' "
By the NCAA's benchmark for self-sufficiency, just 24 of 230 public schools in Division I stand on their own, up from 20 a year earlier, according to an analysis of the 2013-14 school year by USA TODAY Sports, based on data gathered in conjunction withIndiana University 's National Sports Journalism Center .
By NCAA definition, self-sufficiency means an athletic department's generated operating revenues — not counting money from student fees, university funding or direct government support — are at least equal to its total operating expenses, which is legalese for taking in more money than you spend.
Oregon led the nation with $196 million total operating revenue and an $83.5 million difference between its generated revenue and its total operating expense of $110.4 million. However, the school reported that its revenue included in-kind facility gifts of $95 million — the value of a football training facility funded primarily by Nike co-founderPhil Knight and his wife.
The other 23 schools meeting this standard are all from the Southeastern, Big Ten,Pac-12 and Big 12 conferences, including Texas, which led the nation in total operating expenses at $154.1 million and reported transferring another $9.7 million back to the university. Texas' total operating revenue was second to Oregon's at $161 million.
TheAtlantic Coast Conference , the other member of the Power Five, did not have any schools meeting the NCAA benchmark, though North Carolina State came close, with a deficit of just more than $165,000. That means athletics departments at schools in conferences outside the Power Five all ran deficits — and four of the six largest are from schools in the C-USA, AAC and Mountain West.
Rutgers, which was then in the AAC but has since moved to the Big Ten, had 2013-14's largest deficit at $36.3 million. The AAC's Connecticut had the third-highest ($27.1 million), ODU the fourth-highest ($26.8 million) and Mountain West's Air Force the sixth-highest ($25.8 million).
The deficits get smaller and the number of self-sufficient schools gets larger if viewed another way. Though athletics departments get money from student fees, university funds and government support, they also send money to their schools through payments for scholarships and facilities and through transfers like Texas'.
When those amounts are balanced, USA TODAY Sports found, all 50 of the public schools that were in a Power Five conference in 2013-14 were self-sufficient. But only three Bowl Subdivision schools outside the Power Five and two non-FBS schools were self-sufficient.
"You've still got 300 other Division I men's basketball schools where" self-sufficiency doesn't exist, Schulz said. "So, even if we give that broader definition, I still think that pressure on those 300 schools is going to be intense. … There are a lot of really outstanding schools (that) have to rely on state dollars coming from general funds to do those athletic programs and to remain competitive with the haves."
But clearly many schools and states find value in financially supporting major college athletics programs. Public officials in at least three states — Wyoming, Utah and North Carolina — are appropriating taxpayers funds or increasing student athletic fees to prop up athletics programs in conferences below the Power Five. But none of that works for Old Dominion because Virginia does not allow tuition money or state appropriations to subsidize the auxiliary side of universities. And now state schools can no longer easily raise student fees.
An analysis by USA TODAY Sports found Old Dominion's athletics department subsidy from student fees for 2012-13 was 73% and for 2013-14 was 65%. Selig said ODU would need to increase its revenue from outside sources by roughly $3 million to reach a 55-45 ratio. "The law puts more onus on athletics to generate more revenue privately," he said, "but that was already a path that we were taking before the bill was introduced."
STATES' DIFFERING APPROACHES
Kirk Cox, a Republican Virginia state delegate who sponsored the new law, said there was a good deal of "angst" among Virginia public colleges when the bill was in the discussion stages. "We wanted to start bending the cost curve," Cox said.
HB 1897 takes effect on July 1, 2016, and schools will have five years to get into compliance. If not, schools can get five more years, "but then it's like double-secret probation," Selig said. "We're not acting as if the back five-year window exists. I daresay Old Dominion will be in compliance well in advance of" the original deadline in 2021.
Here is how the law will work: Schools from Power Five conferences will be able to get no more than 20% of their budgets from student fees and other university sources — that means ACC members Virginia and Virginia Tech, which are already below that threshold — whileFootball Championship Series schools such as James Madison and Norfolk State will be able to get no more than 70% from fees and school sources. Schools without football such as George Mason and Radford no more than 78%.
Old Dominion is Virginia's only FBS school outside of the Power Five — and the only school to have its student-fee threshold set at 55% by the new law.
"ODU was a unique case," Cox said. "Basically, we created another category for them."
Selig said a separate category was needed because it wouldn't have been fair to group the Monarchs with the Cavaliers and the Hokies: "Obviously we are not at all like Virginia and Virginia Tech in conference revenue distribution, in stadium size, ticket revenue, donor revenue. We are FBS, but there is a big difference between where we are in revenue streams — and where they are."
So ODU and C-USA number-crunchers looked at the subsidies that their FBS peers were getting in five conferences outside the Power Five: C-USA, AAC, Mountain West, Sun Belt and Mid-American. Selig said ODU president John Broderick provided the results to staffers for the state General Assembly, who in turn were conducting independent research of their own.
"It was a collaborative exercise in trying to be fair," said Tony Maggio, a legislative fiscal analyst for the state's House Appropriations Committee. Maggio said the numbers each side came up with were close.
Cox has not heard from legislators in other states who may want to pass similar laws, but Selig thinks it is only a matter of time. "I don't think this is going to an anomaly," Selig said. "My sense is other states are going to take note."
In Utah, Wyoming, and North Carolina, however, more help is on the way for athletics.
In February, the University of North Carolina System Board of Governors approved student athletic fee increases for the 2015-16 school year for all of the system's 11 Division I schools exceptUNC-Chapel Hill , N.C. State and N.C. Central. The board also approved further increases for 2016-17 for six schools, including AAC member East Carolina and C-USA's North Carolina Charlotte.
In March, Wyoming lawmakers approved up to $4 million in taxpayer money that will be given to theUniversity of Wyoming athletics department as matching funds for money Wyoming, a Mountain West school, is seeking from private donors. This was on top of $1 million in matching funds that the state previously had approved on a $1-for-every-$2-raised basis.
About a week after Wyoming's action, Utah's legislature approved an additional $1.5 million annually for the athletics department atUtah State , another Mountain West school. The move was led by Lyle Hillyard , a Republican from Logan — where Utah State's campus is located — who is the senate chair of the legislature's Executive Appropriations Committee. He specifically cited the funding for Wyoming as a reason for the appropriation.
"I'm convinced we'll make more than that (amount) in economic development — from people coming to the games," said Hillyard, who added that the legislature has provided other help for college athletics programs in the state, including letting all of them retain sales tax dollars as long as the money is used to support women's teams.
LOOKING FOR ANSWERS
New NCAA legislation will allow schools to pay the full cost of attendance for scholarship athletes. That will not be a challenge for many of the schools in the Power Five conferences, but it will be for schools like Old Dominion.
"We have done the calculations," Selig said. "We have 16 athletic programs and if we pay full cost of attendance to all of our athletes, that would represent $800,000 more of cost — $800,000 that we would have to find from private resources. There is no way we can get it from student fees. Now, if we do it need-based that would cost $250,000. Or we could do some hybrid model in between. We're still trying to formulate our strategy."
Selig said ODU has looked at as many as 40 options on what that model might be. He said the full cost of attendance is an extra $2,975 per student, but that $1,100 of that is the estimated cost of three round-trip airfares per school year. Given that at least half of ODU's athletes are from in-state and would not need airfare, "maybe there's some wiggle room there. … Philosophically, we are in favor of supporting student-athletes to the highest allowable possibility. But there is also reality and we need to make sure that we have ample funding to cover those costs."
So where can ODU find more money? Selig said much of the athletics department's increased revenue in recent years has come from donations to the ODU Athletics Foundation, which has increased its donations markedly since the school moved up to major college football in 2009.
"We have challenged all of our revenue-generating areas to increase 10% each year," Selig says. "For example, the foundation is raising $4.2 million in unrestricted annual gift support so a 10% increase means we need to generate $420,000 more next year and we have been able to do that for the last three years. You keep doing 10%, 10%, 10% — it's aggressive but you make great strides."
Selig spent 11 years in theUniversity of Virginia athletics department: "I've been at a high-resource school. It's not like they don't have their financial challenges and concerns. But when the revenue from TV and the College Football Playoff and maybe if they have a TV network within their conference, they're generating new revenue in such large increments that it is easier for them to absorb cost of attendance than it will be for many of us."
ODU moved to C-USA from theColonial Athletic Association in 2013. Selig said ODU was getting "several hundred thousand dollars" in conference revenue distribution each year in the CAA and that in the C-USA that will soon be $2.2 million or $2.3 million per year. Still, that pales in comparison to the roughly $21 million in conference revenue distribution that SEC members got a year ago.
"The high-resource schools have means available to them that most of us will never enjoy," Selig says. "That's OK. Because at the end of the day, in football they can still only sign 85 scholarships. In (men's) basketball, they can only sign 13. There are thousands of great athletes throughout this country and internationally that give Division I institutions a huge pipeline for athletic talent that goes beyond those 65 high-resource institutions. They just can't capture all the talent, despite all the facilities they're going to build and all the coaches they're going to pay."
Houston we have a problem. Watch how the ACC will ignore this problem. ACC is loaded with schools with Texas, Michigan, Ohio State type money (endowments, wealthy alumns, etc).....they just don't want to play this game. But THAT is the core issue ....isn't it?
You can just about rank-order the conferences in terms of overall strength by looking at the percentage of student/academic subsidies the athletic side is getting.
Number of schools with less than a 5% subsidy percentage:
SEC:...... 10
B1G:....... 8 (B1G has most schools with less than 2% subsidy rate)
Big 12:..... 5
PAC:....... 3
ACC: ...... 0 (most ACC schools have less than a 15% subsidy rate)
TOP SCHOOL REVENUE
| Oregon | PAC-12 | $196,030,398 | $110,378,432 | $2,155,099 | 1.10 |
| Texas | Big 12 | $161,035,187 | $154,128,877 | $0 | 0.00 |
| Michigan | Big Ten | $157,899,820 | $142,551,994 | $256,316 | 0.16 |
| Alabama | SEC | $153,234,273 | $120,184,128 | $5,997,100 | 3.91 |
| Ohio State | Big Ten | $145,232,681 | $113,937,001 | $0 | 0.00 |
| LSU | SEC | $133,679,256 | $122,945,710 | $0 | 0.00 |
| Oklahoma | Big 12 | $129,226,692 | $113,366,698 | $0 | 0.00 |
| Wisconsin | Big Ten | $127,910,918 | $125,096,235 | $8,073,360 | 6.31 |
| Florida | SEC | $124,611,305 | $109,690,016 | $4,308,442 | 3.46 |
| Texas A&M | SEC | $119,475,872 | $95,663,483 | $1,241,457 | 1.04 |
| Oklahoma State | Big 12 | $117,803,302 | $109,648,000 | $7,521,475 | 6.38 |
| Penn State | Big Ten | $117,590,990 | $117,440,639 | $0 | 0.00 |
| Auburn | SEC | $113,716,004 | $126,470,602 | $4,384,800 | 3.86 |
| Tennessee | SEC | $107,499,732 | $106,153,854 | $1,250,000 | 1.16 |
| Minnesota | Big Ten | $106,176,156 | $106,176,156 | $7,011,066 | 6.60 |
| Iowa | Big Ten | $105,958,954 | $102,278,847 | $683,917 | 0.65 |
| Florida State | ACC | $104,774,474 | $98,866,182 | $7,980,366 | 7.62 |
| Michigan State | Big Ten | $104,677,456 | $107,422,832 | $1,094,958 | 1.05 |
| Georgia | SEC | $103,495,587 | $92,560,956 | $3,274,712 | 3.16 |
| Washington | PAC-12 | $100,275,187 | $86,097,137 | $3,549,679 | 3.54 |
| Arizona | PAC-12 | $99,911,034 | $95,524,260 | $7,901,134 | 7.91 |
| South Carolina | SEC | $98,619,479 | $95,762,786 | $5,631,976 | 5.71 |
| Kansas | Big 12 | $97,681,066 | $90,056,511 | $2,564,374 | 2.63 |
| Arkansas | SEC | $96,793,972 | $94,640,408 | $1,936,405 | 2.00 |
| Kentucky | SEC | $96,685,489 | $94,612,431 | $861,548 | 0.89 |
College athletics finance report: Non-Power 5 schools face huge money pressure
Correction: An earlier version of this story misidentified
The rich are different from you and me,
The so-called Power Five conferences are different from the American Athletic and
Wood Selig knows all about that. He is athletics director at
That puts Old Dominion in a double-bind: Trying to increase its football profile while trying to decrease its dependence on a primary source of revenue. Others in the AAC, Mountain West and C-USA face different challenges, but similar pressures: They are schools in lesser leagues with designs on keeping up with Power Five programs, but typically without the means to underwrite their dreams.
DATABASE: A look at every Division I public school's finances
"I think the pressure is going to get intense in the next five years," Kansas State president and NCAA Board of Governors chair
By the NCAA's benchmark for self-sufficiency, just 24 of 230 public schools in Division I stand on their own, up from 20 a year earlier, according to an analysis of the 2013-14 school year by USA TODAY Sports, based on data gathered in conjunction with
By NCAA definition, self-sufficiency means an athletic department's generated operating revenues — not counting money from student fees, university funding or direct government support — are at least equal to its total operating expenses, which is legalese for taking in more money than you spend.
Oregon led the nation with $196 million total operating revenue and an $83.5 million difference between its generated revenue and its total operating expense of $110.4 million. However, the school reported that its revenue included in-kind facility gifts of $95 million — the value of a football training facility funded primarily by Nike co-founder
The other 23 schools meeting this standard are all from the Southeastern, Big Ten,
The
Rutgers, which was then in the AAC but has since moved to the Big Ten, had 2013-14's largest deficit at $36.3 million. The AAC's Connecticut had the third-highest ($27.1 million), ODU the fourth-highest ($26.8 million) and Mountain West's Air Force the sixth-highest ($25.8 million).
The deficits get smaller and the number of self-sufficient schools gets larger if viewed another way. Though athletics departments get money from student fees, university funds and government support, they also send money to their schools through payments for scholarships and facilities and through transfers like Texas'.
When those amounts are balanced, USA TODAY Sports found, all 50 of the public schools that were in a Power Five conference in 2013-14 were self-sufficient. But only three Bowl Subdivision schools outside the Power Five and two non-FBS schools were self-sufficient.
"You've still got 300 other Division I men's basketball schools where" self-sufficiency doesn't exist, Schulz said. "So, even if we give that broader definition, I still think that pressure on those 300 schools is going to be intense. … There are a lot of really outstanding schools (that) have to rely on state dollars coming from general funds to do those athletic programs and to remain competitive with the haves."
But clearly many schools and states find value in financially supporting major college athletics programs. Public officials in at least three states — Wyoming, Utah and North Carolina — are appropriating taxpayers funds or increasing student athletic fees to prop up athletics programs in conferences below the Power Five. But none of that works for Old Dominion because Virginia does not allow tuition money or state appropriations to subsidize the auxiliary side of universities. And now state schools can no longer easily raise student fees.
An analysis by USA TODAY Sports found Old Dominion's athletics department subsidy from student fees for 2012-13 was 73% and for 2013-14 was 65%. Selig said ODU would need to increase its revenue from outside sources by roughly $3 million to reach a 55-45 ratio. "The law puts more onus on athletics to generate more revenue privately," he said, "but that was already a path that we were taking before the bill was introduced."
STATES' DIFFERING APPROACHES
Kirk Cox, a Republican Virginia state delegate who sponsored the new law, said there was a good deal of "angst" among Virginia public colleges when the bill was in the discussion stages. "We wanted to start bending the cost curve," Cox said.
HB 1897 takes effect on July 1, 2016, and schools will have five years to get into compliance. If not, schools can get five more years, "but then it's like double-secret probation," Selig said. "We're not acting as if the back five-year window exists. I daresay Old Dominion will be in compliance well in advance of" the original deadline in 2021.
Here is how the law will work: Schools from Power Five conferences will be able to get no more than 20% of their budgets from student fees and other university sources — that means ACC members Virginia and Virginia Tech, which are already below that threshold — while
Old Dominion is Virginia's only FBS school outside of the Power Five — and the only school to have its student-fee threshold set at 55% by the new law.
"ODU was a unique case," Cox said. "Basically, we created another category for them."
So ODU and C-USA number-crunchers looked at the subsidies that their FBS peers were getting in five conferences outside the Power Five: C-USA, AAC, Mountain West, Sun Belt and Mid-American. Selig said ODU president John Broderick provided the results to staffers for the state General Assembly, who in turn were conducting independent research of their own.
"It was a collaborative exercise in trying to be fair," said Tony Maggio, a legislative fiscal analyst for the state's House Appropriations Committee. Maggio said the numbers each side came up with were close.
Cox has not heard from legislators in other states who may want to pass similar laws, but Selig thinks it is only a matter of time. "I don't think this is going to an anomaly," Selig said. "My sense is other states are going to take note."
In Utah, Wyoming, and North Carolina, however, more help is on the way for athletics.
In February, the University of North Carolina System Board of Governors approved student athletic fee increases for the 2015-16 school year for all of the system's 11 Division I schools except
In March, Wyoming lawmakers approved up to $4 million in taxpayer money that will be given to the
About a week after Wyoming's action, Utah's legislature approved an additional $1.5 million annually for the athletics department at
"I'm convinced we'll make more than that (amount) in economic development — from people coming to the games," said Hillyard, who added that the legislature has provided other help for college athletics programs in the state, including letting all of them retain sales tax dollars as long as the money is used to support women's teams.
LOOKING FOR ANSWERS
New NCAA legislation will allow schools to pay the full cost of attendance for scholarship athletes. That will not be a challenge for many of the schools in the Power Five conferences, but it will be for schools like Old Dominion.
"We have done the calculations," Selig said. "We have 16 athletic programs and if we pay full cost of attendance to all of our athletes, that would represent $800,000 more of cost — $800,000 that we would have to find from private resources. There is no way we can get it from student fees. Now, if we do it need-based that would cost $250,000. Or we could do some hybrid model in between. We're still trying to formulate our strategy."
Selig said ODU has looked at as many as 40 options on what that model might be. He said the full cost of attendance is an extra $2,975 per student, but that $1,100 of that is the estimated cost of three round-trip airfares per school year. Given that at least half of ODU's athletes are from in-state and would not need airfare, "maybe there's some wiggle room there. … Philosophically, we are in favor of supporting student-athletes to the highest allowable possibility. But there is also reality and we need to make sure that we have ample funding to cover those costs."
So where can ODU find more money? Selig said much of the athletics department's increased revenue in recent years has come from donations to the ODU Athletics Foundation, which has increased its donations markedly since the school moved up to major college football in 2009.
"We have challenged all of our revenue-generating areas to increase 10% each year," Selig says. "For example, the foundation is raising $4.2 million in unrestricted annual gift support so a 10% increase means we need to generate $420,000 more next year and we have been able to do that for the last three years. You keep doing 10%, 10%, 10% — it's aggressive but you make great strides."
Selig spent 11 years in the
ODU moved to C-USA from the
"The high-resource schools have means available to them that most of us will never enjoy," Selig says. "That's OK. Because at the end of the day, in football they can still only sign 85 scholarships. In (men's) basketball, they can only sign 13. There are thousands of great athletes throughout this country and internationally that give Division I institutions a huge pipeline for athletic talent that goes beyond those 65 high-resource institutions. They just can't capture all the talent, despite all the facilities they're going to build and all the coaches they're going to pay."
Factoid of the day
IraSchoffelWarchant.com
Monday, May 25, 2015
2013 FSU roster
Jay-B
2013 FSU roster
Green are drafted players, red were UFA, Purple are still on roster.. Telvin Smith is the empty WLB pic.twitter.com/HJh2qVMSfu
Saturday, May 23, 2015
'Program pecking order' Kings-Barons-Knights-Peasants per Stewart Mandel
This was first done in 2007 with a 2012 update. Interesting to see perceptions change for a few schools. It would be interesting to see a 2015 update.
http://deepsouthblog.blogspot.com/2008/08/program-pecking-order-dividing-bcs.html
"Posted by Mandel: Wednesday August 8, 2007 1:02PM; Updated: Wednesday August 8, 2007 2:21PM
One of the fun things about writing the Mailbag each week is you never know which portion will touch the biggest nerve. Last week, it was a seemingly innocuous, buried-on-page-three question from a reader named Jeff in Atlanta wondering why Georgia coach Mark Richt isn't catching any heat for failing to reach the national title game.
In the course of defending Richt -- who's "only" won two SEC titles and a division crown in six years -- I noted that the Dawgs are not the sort of "national power" whose fans are entitled to expect national titles. (Their last one came 27 years ago.) My classification of the program as a "regional power" generated a whole bunch of angry e-mails from the Peach State (though there were also quite a few Georgia fans who readily agreed), as well as this interesting query from Adam in Philadelphia:
You talk about how Georgia fans hold an inflated perception of their place in the national scene. Can you give us rankings of schools and their prestige and place in the national scene? I am a huge Penn State fan (I went there) and would like to know where you place them.
Here's what makes this question so intriguing. By any quantitative standard, Georgia has been a far better program than Penn State for some time now. Heck, the Nittany Lions have had four losing seasons this decade, while the Dawgs haven't won less than eight games in a season. And yet, I would tell you without a moment's hesitation that Penn State is a national power while Georgia is not.
So I suppose this raises a question: What exactly constitutes a "national power?" To be honest, I don't have a specific answer. Obviously, a history of on-field success (national championships, major bowls) is the key component, but the program must also continue to maintain relevance -- after all, Minnesota has a bunch of national titles on its mantle, but no one views the Gophers as a national power.
No, it's something more than wins and losses. It's a certain cachet or aura. It's the way a program is perceived by the public. Let me put it to you this way:
Suppose we went to, say, Montana. And suppose we found 100 "average" college football fans (not necessarily message-board crazies, but not twice-a-year viewers, either) and put them in a room. If I held up a Michigan helmet, my guess is all 100 would know exactly what it was. If I held up a picture of the USC song girls, all 100 would know who they were. If I happened to bring Joe Paterno along with me, all 100 would say, "Hey, look, it's Joe Paterno!"
But if I held up a Georgia "G" helmet, how many of them do you think would be able to identify it off the top of their head? And with all due respect to Mark Richt, if we secretly inserted him into a police lineup, how many of them would actually say, "Hey, look, it's Mark Richt!" (I swear, Dawgs fans, I'm not trying to pile on Georgia. It's just the example I was given. Don't hate me. Here -- Larry Munson is a god.)
So with this admittedly vague yet somehow telling criteria as my guide, I will accept Adam's challenge and rank the "prestige level" of all 66 BCS schools (including Notre Dame) by dividing them into four tiers.
KINGS
Alabama, Florida, Florida State, Miami, Michigan, Nebraska, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Penn State, Tennessee*, Texas and USC.
* Tennessee is the lone school in the group that caused any hesitation. The Vols would have been a no-brainer 10 years ago, but they have fallen off the map a bit lately. In the end, I figured those 100 fans in Montana still know "Rocky Top," the checkered end zones and that Peyton Manning went there.
BARONS
Auburn, Clemson, Colorado, Georgia, LSU*, Texas A&M, UCLA, Virginia Tech, Washington and Wisconsin.
* While LSU is clearly a premier program right now, its big-picture tradition does not match those of the 13 kings. However, if the Tigers were to add another national title here in the next couple of years, they may well graduate to that group.
KNIGHTS
Arizona State, Arkansas, Boston College, Cal, Georgia Tech, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas State, Maryland, Michigan State, Missouri, N.C. State, Oklahoma State, Ole Miss, Oregon, Oregon State, Pittsburgh, Purdue, Stanford, Syracuse*, South Carolina, Texas Tech, Virginia, West Virginia and Washington State.
* In normal times, Syracuse would qualify as one of the barons, but they're just so darn bad and so irrelevant right now.
PEASANTS
Arizona, Baylor, Cincinnati, Connecticut, Duke, Minnesota, Indiana, Iowa State, Kansas, Kentucky, Mississippi State, North Carolina, Northwestern, Rutgers*, South Florida*, Wake Forest and Vanderbilt.
* Rutgers is another program that could be on its way up a tier, and South Florida is here by default because it's essentially a start-up.
There is one school intentionally missing from the list, and that's because I have no idea where to put it: Louisville. History-wise, the Cardinals are peasants, but the program has completely reinvented itself over the past decade and now gets mentioned with the kings and barons. For now, we'll just say: TBD.
Already anticipating what may be my biggest barrage of hate mail yet, all I ask is that you spare me any lists of all-time winning percentages, bowl wins, conference titles and whatnot. Remember -- being called a "powerhouse" is more about public perception than it is reality. Better yet, just apply the Montana test."
'Program pecking order' returns after five-year hiatus; Mailbag
Posted: Wed Jul. 11, 2012
How much can the perception of a program change over a half-decade? I'm not talking about the usual on-field ebbs and flows of going 10-2 one year and 7-5 the next. I'm talking about a real change in the national prestige (or lack thereof) a team established over decades due to its level of play in the past five seasons.
Plenty of you must be wondering, since I've been getting regular requests over the past year or so to revisit my "Program Pecking Order" Mailbag from August 2007 that divvied up the nation's BCS-conference schools into a four-tiered Feudal society. This seems as good a time as any to do it. The genesis of the idea was a reader debate over whether Georgia should be considered a "national power." My answer in '07 was no (turning me into a permanent enemy of certain Bulldogs bloggers), and that hasn't changed in the last five years.
As a refresher: The goal here is not to rank programs based on winning percentage, national championships, bowl wins or any other quantitative measure, though those things undoubtedly matter. As I wrote in '07, a national power carries "... a certain cachet or aura. It's the way a program is perceived by the public. Let me put it to you this way. Suppose we went to, say, Montana. And suppose we found 100 'average' college football fans (not necessarily message-board crazies, but not twice-a-year viewers, either) and put them in a room. If I held up a Michigan helmet, my guess is all 100 would know exactly what it was. ... But if I held up a Georgia 'G' helmet, how many of them do you think would be able to identify it off the top of their heads?"
As you're about to find out, things haven't changed dramatically in five years. In fact, I'd argue they haven't changed much at all. Most of the programs that rose or fell here had already begun to shift in the five years prior, but it took a little longer to be sure it was truly a trend. There are a couple exceptions, however, largely due to the massive conference realignment wave of the past couple years.
For the purposes of this exercise, I've included all current AQ-conference programs, major independents and a certain blue-clad team that falls somewhere in between.
Formatting note: Bolded teams moved up to that rank or are making their debut; strikethrough teams fell out of that rank.
* Alabama, Florida, Florida State, LSU (BOLD), Miami, Michigan, Nebraska, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Penn State, Tennessee (STRIKE THROUGH), Texas and USC.
Ten years ago, LSU was coming off its first outright SEC championship in 15 years, having upset Phillip Fulmer's second-ranked Tennessee squad. Four months after this column ran, the Tigers knocked off the Vols in Atlanta again en route to their second BCS championship in five years. While LSU solidified itself as a bona fide national power, Tennessee fired Fulmer a year later and sank further into a decade-long bout of mediocrity.
It will be interesting to see where Penn State lands on this list if we revisit it five years down the road. The now-scandal-ridden program's identity was so closely tied to the late Joe Paterno that it may never again carry the same clout.
* Auburn, Clemson, Colorado (STRIKE THROUGH), Georgia, Oregon (BOLD), Tennessee, Texas A&M, UCLA, Virginia Tech, Washington(STRIKE THROUGH), West Virginia (BOLD) and Wisconsin.
Some might wonder how Colorado and Washington were in this tier to begin with, but both programs won national titles in the '90s. I couldn't have known then just how far the once-mighty would fall. Oregon's rise was a no-brainer, with Chip Kelly building on Mike Bellotti's momentum and taking the Ducks to three consecutive BCS games. West Virginia has three BCS wins since 2005, but its move to the Big 12 helps its profile as much as those.
* Arizona State, Arkansas, Boise State (BOLD), Boston College, BYU, Cal, Colorado, Georgia Tech, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas State, Maryland, Michigan State, Missouri, N.C. State, Oklahoma State, Ole Miss, Oregon State, Pittsburgh, Purdue, Stanford, Syracuse, South Carolina, TCU, Texas Tech, Utah (BOLD), Virginia, Washington and Washington State(STRIKE THROUGH).
This is the landing spot for recent BCS crashers and upwardly mobile Boise State, TCU and Utah, as well as ever-consistent, now independent BYU. While no one would argue that Boise has been far more successful lately than, say, UCLA, it will take many more years of sustained success for the Broncos to be viewed as the same type of "big boys" as the history-laden Bruins. Oklahoma State and/or Stanford could be the next to move up, while Washington State is now too far removed from its last run of respectability to avoid the bottom rung.
* Arizona, Baylor, Cincinnati, Connecticut, Duke, Minnesota, Indiana, Iowa State, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisville (BOLD), Mississippi State, North Carolina, Northwestern, Rutgers, Temple (BOLD), USF, Wake Forest, Washington State and Vanderbilt.
Five years ago I wasn't sure where to place Louisville, which was coming off a 12-1 season and Orange Bowl win. Now it's clear the Cardinals aren't too different from the rest of their Big East brethren, seven of whom sit here. None can seem to sustain success. We'll see if it's possible for any to make inroads once the Big East loses its AQ status.
All told, three of the 71 schools moved up, four moved down and six made their debuts. The conclusion: At this point it's more feasible for a young program like Boise State to make a splash and create a new identity than it is for a more established program to alter a perception built over 100-plus years."
FSU baseball factoid of the day
Dustin Tackett
In other words: FSU has never won less than 40 games since Mike Martin became head coach 36 years ago. Wow
36 consecutive seasons with 40-plus wins for FSU under Mike Martin.
Recently a coworker from RI didn't believe me when I told him @FSU_Baseball has never had a losing season, he was incredulous.
Friday, May 22, 2015
ACC Factoid
David Teel
2013-14 was first athletic year in which UNC did not win an ACC title. Ever.
Thursday, May 21, 2015
ACC football
Missing 2014 of course.
ACC football
First, let's take a look at the bowl games in which the ACC champion played by year:
ACC football
First, let's take a look at the bowl games in which the ACC champion played by year:
ESPN: A Tale of Hypocrisy
Long read, but great info on that bore of a network we call ESPN which is now to sports what MTV is to music.
Why the ACC hitched it's wagon to a network that paints it as the villain, to make an easy buck while the SEC is protected,......is beyond me.
ESPN: A Tale of Hypocrisy
Why the ACC hitched it's wagon to a network that paints it as the villain, to make an easy buck while the SEC is protected,......is beyond me.
ESPN: A Tale of Hypocrisy
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